Keywords: cinch power,crank fit,inpower,measure power on your bike,power meter,powertap,srm,stages power

Best cycling power meters for U.P./U.P.P.E.R.

Gerard Vroomen - 11-Jan-2018
We get a lot of questions about what Powermeter best fits the UP/UPPER and that is particularly important because some power meter design conflict with the desire to have the most tire clearance.



The reason this is tricky is:
  • As you know, the UP/UPPER has the most tire clearance of any performance frame that fits regular road cranks. And that is the defining feature, more clearance = more fun.
  • It's also crucial that we can fit road cranks, if you use mountain bike cranks you do create more clearance but you give up efficiency due to the bigger Q-factor (in plain English, you ride like a duck). Less efficient, less aero, less speed. And that would not be acceptable, as we want you to be able to ride with your roadie friends on your UP (or at least go their speed even if you don't want to ride with them). The UP should be ultra-performing on- AND off-road, not forcing a choice between the two.
  • Anyway, lots of space for the tire and insisting on running narrow road cranks means there is not much space for the chain stays. To make the chainstays as big as we can, we do two things:
    1) drop the driveside chainstay, which has become one of the defining (and most-copied) features
    2) focus on very tight tolerances in production to reduce the space between crank/chainrings and chainstay
  • This second part is very important. To give you an idea, the standard clearance in the bike industry in that area is 6mm, we use 2mm in some areas. That 4mm extra is huge when you're chainstays go from 10mm to 14mm. Taking wall thickness effects into account it more than doubles the stiffness of the tube.
  • Problem is, some power meter manufacturers have also been eyeing that 6mm gap and decided to stick a measuring pod on the crank to take advantage of it. That doesn't work for us, if we allow that clearance, the UP would go from fitting 2.1" tires to fitting 1.8" tires or we would have to sacrifice BB stiffness, and both of those are features we and our customers love. Nobody has ever done an epic offroad ride and concluded "that was great, but I would have enjoyed it more if my tires were skinnier and my bottom bracket more flexible."
  • If the pod poses a problem with the outboard position of our chainstays depends on how thick the pod is and where it is located. Around the pedal, we have pretty normal clearance (5-6mm) since that is no longer a critical area for chainstay size, but closer to the rings it gets a lot tighter.
So we asked power meter manufacturers and our customers which power meters work (and which don't) and here are the results. Please note that the below lists are made with the best intentions, but we cannot 100% guarantee this as people can make mistakes and products do sometimes change. So always best to check with the power meter manufacturer and to ask that you can return the power meter should it not fit.
   
 Manufacturer Model Fit
 SRAM Red AXS Powermeter Yes
 SRAM Red 1 AXS Powermeter Yes
 Rotor Any model with INpower or 2INpower Yes
 Stages DuraAce w. Gen 2 pods (I don't quite believe it, apparently very tight)   Yes
 Stages DuraAce/Ultegra Power R Yes
 Stages DuraAce/Ultegra Power LR Unclear
 Stages Most road cranks No
 Stages Any MTB crank (but we don't recommend it, see intro above) Yes
 Garmin Vector (do we need to tell you it works? It's a pedal!) Yes
 Powertap G3 power hub (does the word "hub" give the answer away?) Yes
 Powertap P1 power pedals (feels like an open-book test?) Yes
 Powertap C1 power chainrings No
 Power2Max Any model with Power2Max NG  Yes
 Power2Max Any model with Power2Max NGeco Yes
 Power2Max SRAM with Power2Max Type S No
 Power2Max Rotor with Power2Max Type S No
 Power2Max FSA K-Force Light with Power2Max Type S Yes
 Power2Max Other models with Power2Max Type S Unclear
 Quarq DZero Carbon (may require small spacer to avoid BB side loading) Yes
 Easton EC90SL with CINCH power Yes
 SRM Origin Carbon Yes
 Look/SRM Exakt power pedal (seriously, another pedal, see above) Yes
 Shimano/Pioneer   SGY-PM90 No
 4iiii Any model No
 Zwatt Zimanox Yes
 

If you have experience with installing a power meter on your UP/UPPER that is not listed above (or an experience that does not match the above suggestions, please let us know in the comments. Or of course just go without power measurement and just enjoy the ride :-)

Comments & Questions

OPEN
Hi Gerard
I have a power2max Type S on my UP, I have run both 700c and 650B (2.1 tyres) with no issues.
https://opencyc...ndrew
Post #1 of 40. Posted by Andrew on 11-Jan-2018 09:54:32 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8390]
OPEN
Hi Andrew, that is great. And have you run that with stock BB and no special spacers? Good clearance between the chain stay and the spider/rings? Which crank?
Post #4 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 11-Jan-2018 12:37:47 GMT in reply to post #1 [8390<--8394]
OPEN
Stock BB, FSA K Force Light cranks.

Clearance to frame with a 46T SRAM ring is about 2-3mm. Not much, but haven’t had issues. I suppose one would ride a smaller ring in really muddy terrain.
Post #5 of 40. Posted by Andrew on 11-Jan-2018 13:44:47 GMT in reply to post #4 [8394<--8395]
OPEN
Great, thanks!
Post #8 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 11-Jan-2018 20:55:12 GMT in reply to post #5 [8395<--8399]
OPEN
Hey guys,

I've been eyeing (and drooling over) the UP and UPPER for quite a while now. Being in Calgary Canada, I'm a bit partial to a local power meter company here (4iii). Do you have any info on whether or not their power meter system clearances are compatible with the UP? I'm looking to build more for road use than off-road, but obviously am attracted to the possibility of using the bike for both.

Thanks in advance.
Post #2 of 40. Posted by Steve Brand on 11-Jan-2018 10:03:54 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8392]
OPEN
4iiii says it won't fit.
Post #19 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 15-Jan-2018 21:41:36 GMT in reply to post #2 [8392<--8415]
OPEN
I also use 4iiii power meters & would be interested if they are compatible?
Post #3 of 40. Posted by Dennis on 11-Jan-2018 10:43:11 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8393]
OPEN
According to 4iiii it won't fit.
Post #20 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 15-Jan-2018 21:42:28 GMT in reply to post #3 [8393<--8416]
OPEN
Thank you for taking the time to check this out.
Post #21 of 40. Posted by Dennis on 16-Jan-2018 09:23:52 GMT in reply to post #20 [8416<--8417]
OPEN
My Power2Max Rotor 3d Type-s required an extra 1.5mm-ish spacer on the drive side to get to work properly. It worked on the stand fine, but rocks and grit caused scrapes around the bottom bracket. Not an ideal solution...am waiting on a 9100-p crankset to try.
Post #6 of 40. Posted by Erik Schumm on 11-Jan-2018 18:02:29 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8397]
OPEN
Quarq Dfour91 works fine (34/50) rings.
Post #30 of 40. Posted by Erik Schumm on 26-Feb-2018 20:31:15 GMT in reply to post #6 [8397<--10534]
OPEN
I was running a rotor 24mm 3D with a Power2max Type S spider and a Kogel BB.
It didn't work. It kept working lose and binding and ended up gouging my frame rather nastily.
I have since returned to enjoying riding without the need to check how hard I am trying, I just needed to measure some stuff for some articles ;)
Post #7 of 40. Posted by James Stout on 11-Jan-2018 19:49:28 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8398]
OPEN
What is the size of the SRAM Force 1 chainring with the power2max PM?
Is a 50T possible?
Post #9 of 40. Posted by Mike on 12-Jan-2018 04:18:00 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8405]
OPEN
For 1x we recommend 46t maximum if using an offset ring like the SRAM. If you use a flat ring like Wolf Tooth, the max is 50mm.
Post #10 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 12-Jan-2018 12:59:32 GMT in reply to post #9 [8405<--8406]
OPEN
Hi Guys, I have been using the Easton EC90SL Cinch for a few weeks now and it is awesome. You replace the spindle with the power meter so there is nothing external to worry about getting damaged. It has been accurate and consistent and it also throws out cadence so I have no sensors attached to the bike. I highly recommend it for those who have and Easton crank.
Post #11 of 40. Posted by Bruce Lampcov on 12-Jan-2018 15:45:12 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8407]
OPEN
Anything special required to run the Cinch? I noticed there are two spindle lengths. Which one did you end up using? How many spacers etc were required.
Thanks for your help.
Post #31 of 40. Posted by Phil Hodson on 27-May-2018 09:16:57 GMT in reply to post #11 [8407<--12753]
OPEN
Hey Gerard! I have a 2017 Blue Up waiting on a build because Shimano's new power meter 9150P is slow on production and had not arrived? Are you aware if this one will fit? I think the power measuring device is in the spindle?? Hope all is well.
Post #12 of 40. Posted by Mark Clark on 13-Jan-2018 12:53:39 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8408]
OPEN
We haven't had our hands on that one yet. I'm a bit worried that it won't fit, but it's hard to tell.
Post #14 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 13-Jan-2018 18:59:26 GMT in reply to post #12 [8408<--8410]
OPEN
http://www.bike.../

Do
these pictures solidify your opinion, one way or the other.
Post #16 of 40. Posted by Mark on 13-Jan-2018 19:15:00 GMT in reply to post #12 [8408<--8412]
OPEN
I run a Zwatt Zimonox left arm power meter (Ultegra Style) on a Ultegra 6800 Crankset with room. The power unit id very low profile as its recessed into the crank arm.
Post #13 of 40. Posted by Mark Hendey on 13-Jan-2018 18:06:38 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8409]
OPEN
Thanks!
Post #15 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 13-Jan-2018 18:59:38 GMT in reply to post #13 [8409<--8411]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
Has anyone confirmed compatibility of Rotor 3D crank with Power2Max NG/NGeco power meter? I am about to build my new UP and though of using a Rotor 3D crank with Power2Max Type-S power meter. After reading above comment from 2 gentlemen, it seems it does not work. Ouch!! Now I have to convert Type-S to NG/NGeco but before that, I wanted to hear you opinion. Thanks!
Post #17 of 40. Posted by Tash on 14-Jan-2018 09:48:13 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8413]
OPEN
Hi Tash, according to Power2Max themselves, all NG/NGeco cranks work. So this info comes straight from them, not from one of our customers.
Post #18 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 15-Jan-2018 21:40:45 GMT in reply to post #17 [8413<--8414]
OPEN
Thank you!!
Post #22 of 40. Posted by Tash on 16-Jan-2018 21:16:26 GMT in reply to post #18 [8414<--8425]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
This is a follow up of my previous post. Now I installed Power2Max NG eco with a Rotor 3D24 crank with a Wheels Manufacutring Angular Contact BB (24mm) to my new UP frame. While I had to insert 0.5mm spacer, which came with the BB, to drive side of the crank, it works great. Without a 0.5mm spacer, the crank VERY slightly touched the frame, very very small area, say 3-4mm length x 0.5mm width, of the chain stay immediately near the BB. Anyway, with the 0.5mm spacer, It seems no rubbing or anything bad. Chain line seems unaffected either. I can confidently say this combination works.
Post #27 of 40. Posted by Tash on 28-Jan-2018 09:48:52 GMT in reply to post #22 [8425<--10476]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
i now its not recommended, but sometimes i will use my Quarq dzero XX1 MTB crank on the U.P. .
If Quarq road cranks fit, the wider MTB crank with qf168 fits also?

Thank you in advance
Post #23 of 40. Posted by Yves on 18-Jan-2018 16:38:59 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8439]
OPEN
Yes, even narrow MTB cranks tend to fit because what is narrow for MTB is still wide for road. It's just a shame to give up so much Q factor.
Post #24 of 40. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 23-Jan-2018 10:46:45 GMT in reply to post #23 [8439<--8453]
OPEN
I want to install a quart Dzero. The summary states DZero Carbon (may require small spacer to avoid side loading of BB bearing). Im a bit concerned my lbs won’t know if I need the mentioned spacer. How would I know if it’s needed.
Post #25 of 40. Posted by Joel on 23-Jan-2018 23:05:28 GMT in reply to blog [0<--9462]
OPEN
Any idea if a 2012 Sram Red Quarq GXP crank would work on the UP? Which B to use to convert to 386evo?
Post #26 of 40. Posted by RoyC on 27-Jan-2018 04:30:22 GMT in reply to blog [0<--9475]
OPEN
Hi, similar type of question: will a Garmin cadence monitor fit? It goes on the non-drive side on the inside of the crank arm.
Thanks!
Jeff
Post #28 of 40. Posted by Jeff on 01-Feb-2018 14:06:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--10484]
OPEN
Since this was initially posted has anyone figured out if the Stages Ultegra R8000 Crankset fit on the UPPER?
Post #29 of 40. Posted by Dan Lustgarten on 05-Feb-2018 21:29:10 GMT in reply to blog [0<--10493]
OPEN
I just tried installing a generation 3 Stages Ultegra L power meter on my New UP - it does not fit at all. Rubs against the chainstay. Besides pedals - any suggestions if I don't want to change out my hub.
Post #32 of 40. Posted by Mark Reiter on 27-May-2018 12:03:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--12754]
OPEN
Hello, would the QuarQ Dfour powermeter or the Rotor2In Powermeter work on an Open Up (2016) frame - so the frame with post mount brakes, with 50/34 chainrings on 38-622 tires?

Kind regards,

Vince
Post #33 of 40. Posted by Vincent on 15-Jun-2018 11:48:51 GMT in reply to blog [0<--13815]
OPEN
So I had every intention of re-purposing my SRM DA9000 50/34 power meter, but only realized once we started the build the SRM would not clear the frame. My mechanic shimmed it 5mm over and honestly it rode just fine, but in my mind I knew I had a goofy chainline and the non-drive side was missing 5mm of axle to hold on to, so abandoned that idea after one ride. I wanted the "most Shimano" solution with my power meter, and almost just bolted on a 9100 crank with no power. Anyway, of the options that were available, I chose the new Power2Max NGeco / Rotor 3D24 cranks / Shimano 4 bolt / Dura Ace R9100 Chainrings in 50/34. We still needed a 0.5mm shim to stop something from rubbing on the frame, but all in all this option works great for anyone wanting a Shimano setup on DA9100. I'm glad this article was here and thanks Gerard for the input too.
Post #34 of 40. Posted by Alex on 12-Jul-2018 00:41:08 GMT in reply to blog [0<--13899]
OPEN
Power2Max NG with Easton cranks fits and works great!
I am using an Enduro Torqtite BB with it-
Post #35 of 40. Posted by John on 09-Nov-2018 21:32:13 GMT in reply to blog [0<--16087]
OPEN
can anyone share more info about the stages gen2 fit - is it possible to post a picture from whomever suggested that's possible?
I have a 4iiii unit on an FC-R8000 Ultegra left crank and it looks like it won't work, so struggle to see how the stages one does.
Post #36 of 40. Posted by Ryan on 19-Jan-2019 06:23:12 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18192]
OPEN
I have an Open UPPER with a praxis zayante carbon crankset. I thought based on the above that the Power2Max NG Eco power meter would work but the mechanic at my LBS told me it doesn't fit. Any recs on power meters that would work with this crankset? I'd ideally like to just get a spider since the crankset is brand new.
Post #37 of 40. Posted by Alex on 06-Feb-2019 16:56:59 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18229]
OPEN
Did you try a 0.5mm spacer? Mine has the same Power2max NG Eco with a 0.5mm spacer. It seems it works. Any particular reason why your LBS mechanic thought it doesn't fit?
Post #38 of 40. Posted by Tash on 18-Apr-2019 04:17:57 GMT in reply to post #37 [18229<--18357]
OPEN
Recommended Enve rims, road and gravel rims. Using Sram AXS. For an Open Upper.
Post #39 of 40. Posted by Robert Macias on 22-Apr-2019 09:28:13 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18366]
OPEN
FYI - power2max for Campagnolo does NOT fit.
Post #40 of 40. Posted by Nate Magaret on 03-May-2019 07:13:06 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18371]
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