Keywords: bb standards,bb30,bb386 evo,bb90,bb92,crank fit,installation,installation,all you need to know

What you should know about Cranks & Bottom Brackets

Gerard Vroomen - 18-Aug-2016
There is probably no topic we get as many questions about as cranks & bottom brackets. Thanks to the bike industry brilliance of inventing a gazillion "standards", even Andy and I sometimes don't know every possible and impossible combination. So let's try to clear some of this up. The important points:

  • Traditionally (not meaning 50 years ago but the oldest technology that still exists today for high-end products), BB shells are 68mm wide for road and 73mm for MTB and the crank axle is 24mm in diameter. The bearings are external, meaning they are embedded in cups which are threaded into the BB shell and hang outside of those 68/73mm. 
  • Then came along BB30, which uses a 30mm axle and bearings directly pressed into a 68mm wide BB shell (same width for road and MTB). IMPORTANT: A lot of people use "BB30" to talk about ANY 30mm axle set-up, but it really refers only to a 30mm axle in a 68mm wide BB shell. After an initial surge of popularity, It's now becoming less and less popular as most new crank axles are wider than 68mm so you may as well use a wider BB shell as well, instead of spacers on your crank.
  • So then came along the wider BBs, like BBright (which is wider only on the non-drive side) to BB386EVO (road) and BB92 (MTB) which are wider on both sides. There are a ton more but we'll focus on the ones that are both common and common sense.
  • For cranks, Shimano has always stuck to 24mm axles. SRAM produces 30mm and 24mm (called GXP) versions of their cranks, and most smaller brands focused on ultimate performance (THM for example but also RaceFace) only produce 30mm cranks.
  • The ONE+ uses BB92, the U.P. uses BB386EVO. The reason for these choices are that they combine very good mechanical properties (meaning we can build a light, stiff, strong frame and use light, stiff, strong cranks) with a wide range of available cranks.
Let's talk about the ONE+ first:

  • BB92 uses a 92mm (did you guess?) wide BB shell on the frame, with a shell diameter of 41mm. Why 41mm? Well, remember that traditional set-up with the 24mm axle and the 73mm wide shell and the outboard bearings? BB92 is basically that same setup, but the cups from those outboard bearings are integrated into the BB shell and form one wide BB shell. And the bearings (which still have a thin sleeve around them for ease of installation) press into that wider shell. So instead of having bearings that sit in cups that thread into a narrow BB shell, you have the bearings with a sleeve wrapped around them press directly into the BB shell. The end result is that the bearings are in the same spot as they would be with threaded cups outboard of a 73mm BB shell, and so all the dozens and dozens of cranks designed for that traditional system can be used in BB92. This means all 24mm high-end Shimano (Hollowtech II) and SRAM (GXP) cranks fit into BB92.
  • One note on "all the cranks": the ONE+ is not only BB92, it is also BOOST. That has nothing to do with the axle and bearings, but it does have to do with the position of the chainrings. So while the axle of a five year-old XTR crank will work in a BB92 frame, the chainrings would be off. So you have to make sure if you use a Shimano crank that it's a BOOST crank. Or you can use a double crank as a single (and use the outer ring position with a flat ring) to get a similar offset).
  • The great thing of BB92 is that inside that 41mm diameter, you can also fit a super light and narrow bearing with a 30mm internal diameter (as opposed to 24mm). This means you can put a crank with an oversized 30mm axle inside this compact 41mm BB shell. For example, a BB90 system will not allow this; its shell is almost as wide, but the diameter is 37mm, too small for any bearing with 30mm internal diameter.
  • The one caveat for using a 30mm crank in a BB92 shell is that the crank axle has to be long enough. A dedicated BB30 crank (remember, for a 68mm BB shell width) would not fit, the axle is too short. But nowadays more and more BB30 cranks actually use a long axle and spacers to reduce it to 68mm. Remove the spacers and you have the perfect BB92 crank. Stiffer than BB30 (no spacers, wider bearing stance) and lighter (smaller bearings, no spacers). The THM M3 and Race Face Next SL are the two most popular cranks of this type.
Then the U.P.:

  • BB386EVO uses a 86mm (no really!) wide BB, with a shell diameter of 46mm. 86mm equals that traditional 68mm BB shell width plus the width of two outboard bearing cups. The 46mm equals the outside diameter of a standard bearing for 30mm axles plus a thin sleeve for easy installation. 
  • Standard 24mm cranks from Shimano, SRAM and others fit inside BB386 EVO without a problem. The width matches the axle width and there are a host of bearing and cup options to connect crank and BB shell.
  • For 30mm axles, most cranks also fit. Again a word of caution, a true BB30 crank would not fit because it is too narrow. If the axle is 68mm, you can't connect the two cranks through an 86mm BB shell. Pretty logical. BUT, more and more crank manufacturers make their 30mm axles long and use spacers to reduce for true BB30. Without those spacers, they are perfect for BB386 EVO as they are stiffer (no spacers, wider bearing stance) and lighter (no spacers) than a 68mm BB30 set-up.
  • It's not always clear if a BB30 crank can be used for BB386 EVO. For the U.P. but far the biggest question mark for our customers is around the SRAM Force 1 crank. And yes, the new version of this BB30 crank is suitable for BB386 EVO with a few simple steps and renders a great set-up. To make it easier to understand, Andy made this small video to explain. NOTE: This does NOT work with a Rival 1 crank as it uses a shorter axle even thought Q factor of the crank is the same, so this is just for the Force 1 crank:

Comments & Questions

OPEN
My question is about power meters....Quarq states that none of their spiders work with 386EVO, but I am curious is this is across the board. P2M says the same about their Type S for SRAM cranks. I was after one of these as I have a CX1 crank and now that Quarq appears ready to launch a new spider that might it looks like the spline interface is different making my crank non-compatible. Any spiders out there that work with my crank that also clear the BB on the UP?
Post #1 of 103. Posted by Luis on 18-Aug-2016 18:41:31 GMT in reply to blog [0<--877]
OPEN
Because many power cranks pre-date the popularity of BB386 EVO, they often don't clear the BB shell. However, if you wait until Eurobike and Interbike, I think you'll start to see more options and after the shows I will write an update on power meters.
Post #3 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 19-Aug-2016 09:58:59 GMT in reply to post #1 [877<--879]
OPEN
I am just fine waiting. Thank you for the reply and I look forward to the update.
Post #5 of 103. Posted by Luis on 19-Aug-2016 10:11:00 GMT in reply to post #3 [879<--882]
OPEN
I think I am clear on the following crank related question, after a correspondence with Gerard and Andy about the topic. But it might be beneficial for others.

With a 1x setup, can you explain how to achieve the best chainline? On the Force 1, SRAM uses an offset chainring, designed to put the chainring in the center of the 2x outer and inner chainrings. This is due to the crank spider on the SRAM Force 1 being the standard 2x spider. My understanding is that the offset SRAM 1x chainring is for more traditional CX frames.

I understand that with the UP, the best 1x chainline is obtained with a flat chainring. Can you explain for people why?
Post #2 of 103. Posted by Arne on 18-Aug-2016 21:32:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--878]
OPEN
Hi Arne, I'll put that into a new update in the next few weeks.
Post #4 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 19-Aug-2016 10:00:23 GMT in reply to post #2 [878<--880]
OPEN
I have a Power2Max meter on my Open UP. It is technically an FSA double and I use the outer ring. It has clearance for a 42tooth oval ring, is designed for BB386EVO and is pretty inexpensive. It gives the correct chainline with the Open, farther "out" than a Sram 1x. I'd assume there are other, maybe better, options coming out but this does work well now.
Post #6 of 103. Posted by austin trautman on 19-Aug-2016 12:33:52 GMT in reply to post #2 [878<--885]
OPEN
Hi I have mounted 6 mm offset chainring ( 32T) and I have some difficulties to have a good gears shifting... Based on the assumption that the BB is correctly mounted and centered what is required to have the best chain line : 0 mm or 6 mm offset chain rings ?
Is that different for small chain rings 32 to 36 compared to 40 or 42 T ?
Thanks a lot in advance
Post #16 of 103. Posted by sylvain barrillon on 18-Feb-2017 13:01:51 GMT in reply to post #2 [878<--1468]
OPEN
Based on the chainring size (32T) you mentioned, I assume you're talking about the ONE+. So, for SRAM mountain cranks (both GXP and BB30), the standard rear spacing (i.e. 12x135/142) chainring offset is 6mm and the BOOST (i.e. 12x148) offset is 3mm. Since the ONE+ has BOOST rear spacing, you'd want a chainring with 3mm offset.
Post #31 of 103. Posted by Greg S. on 04-Dec-2017 09:52:57 GMT in reply to post #16 [1468<--8286]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,

This post got me thinking, and I have a question regarding crankarm length. Is there any good evidence to guide length selection for the ONE+?
I've found greatly improved hip comfort going shorter to 170mm cranks on my road and CX bikes, so does it make sense to keep that the same on the MTB as well? Obviously the hip angle on a mountain bike is relatively open already, so there is any benefit to 170mm vs 175mm for example?

my thanks in advance!
Post #7 of 103. Posted by Scott on 19-Aug-2016 15:28:13 GMT in reply to blog [0<--889]
OPEN
Hi Scott, I answered you a few days ago on the same question on the ONE+ page!
Post #8 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 19-Aug-2016 22:02:16 GMT in reply to blog [0<--891]
OPEN
Whoops! I didn't think the first one successfully posted... My apologies, and thanks for taking the time to reply!
Post #11 of 103. Posted by Scott on 21-Aug-2016 21:19:49 GMT in reply to post #8 [891<--903]
OPEN
No worries, it made me realise there isn't a good feedback loop when you press submit, so we will change that and give people a confirmation that the submitting worked. Cheers!
Post #12 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 21-Aug-2016 22:02:53 GMT in reply to post #11 [903<--904]
OPEN
Gerard,
A huge 'thank you' for posting this video. I thought I was going to need to buy a new/different crankset to replace my Force1 (££££!!!!!) but for the cost of a wave washer kit (£6) my headache's been solved. Wave washer kit is now installed (wave-washer and 4.5mm spacer LHS; 2.5mm spacer and 2x 0.5mm washersRHS), cranks torqued up nicely and I'm ready for my 1st ride. Yeeeeessss!!! :) Cheers
Post #9 of 103. Posted by Allan on 21-Aug-2016 07:03:29 GMT in reply to blog [0<--898]
OPEN
Glad it worked for you!
Post #10 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 21-Aug-2016 17:54:26 GMT in reply to post #9 [898<--902]
OPEN
Hi Allen,
Can you let me know where you got that washer kit? Or maybe Andy or Gerard can answer that question? And can I also use 4.5mm and 2.6mm spacer/washer instead of the combinations?
Post #13 of 103. Posted by Michiel Janssen on 16-Nov-2016 11:08:58 GMT in reply to post #9 [898<--1181]
OPEN
good question Allen
Looking for a place to purchase the washer kit???

Thanks All
Post #14 of 103. Posted by adam debiasio on 12-Jan-2017 06:57:28 GMT in reply to post #13 [1181<--1340]
OPEN
Adam,

I went on to look for them on the internet. If you search with Amazon you will be able to find SRAM BB30 washer kits for the 0.5mm and washer, you can use FSA or Truvativ spacers to get a 2.5mm spacer. Than bring them together to get the total amounts Gerard and Andy are mentioning in their posts and it will work (at least that's how I got it working....) Good luck!
Post #15 of 103. Posted by Michiel on 12-Jan-2017 07:15:02 GMT in reply to post #14 [1340<--1341]
OPEN
It appears an Ultegra 6800 with Stages PM will not fit on the Open UP. The non-drive side (side with the PM) does not clear the chain stay. I'm using a 386 EVO BB. Has anyone been successful with this configuration? Thanks.
Post #17 of 103. Posted by Don Schatz on 24-Feb-2017 19:54:10 GMT in reply to blog [0<--1493]
OPEN
The Ultegra Stages power meter will not fit. Because we have so much tire clearance, we need all the space between crank and tire for the chain stay, so we cannot leave room for a large pod. That said, some stages do work, I'm actually just creating an overview and will write a blog about this in the next week or two.
Post #19 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Feb-2017 08:00:00 GMT in reply to post #17 [1493<--1501]
OPEN
I'm about to install cranks on my Open UP and I got Sram Force 1 GXP cranks and the FSA GXP adapters shown in the movie. What I don't know is what kind of spacers I need and in what order to put them. Could you advise, please?
Cheers
Post #18 of 103. Posted by Staffan on 25-Feb-2017 13:48:09 GMT in reply to blog [0<--1494]
OPEN
The exact number of spacers depends a bit on how far the crank goes onto the axle, and therefore differs a bit from model to model and also from model year to model year. So the wavy spacer always goes on the drive side, and then you may need a few 0.5 and/or 1mm spacers to fill out the remaining space and center the crank (which is actually not as crucial as most people think, it won't kill you if the crank is off by 1-2 mm and it's quite hard to get it off much more than that without really trying.
Post #20 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Feb-2017 08:02:11 GMT in reply to post #18 [1494<--1502]
OPEN
Will the Quarq DZero carbon in a 30mm spindle work with UP in a double ring configuration? They claim BB386 compatibility on the quarq info page and the UP is not listed as incompatible.
Post #21 of 103. Posted by John on 24-Mar-2017 10:18:15 GMT in reply to blog [0<--2630]
OPEN
Hi John, I am not 100% sure, but I think it does. Maybe somebody else on the site has more info, I will ask around.
Post #22 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 25-Mar-2017 23:31:47 GMT in reply to post #21 [2630<--2647]
OPEN
whats the maximum chainring i can use on a O-1.1 when using 1x?

thanks
Post #23 of 103. Posted by Dan on 16-May-2017 06:30:33 GMT in reply to blog [0<--4859]
OPEN
36 teeth
Post #24 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 21-May-2017 22:40:59 GMT in reply to post #23 [4859<--4871]
OPEN
Gerard - why don't you include flat mount bolts (M5 25mm & 35mm with the UPPER frameset? I am trying to find some lightweight bolts - either titanium or aluminum. Any suggestions on where to find some?
Thank you. Mike
Post #25 of 103. Posted by Mike Larsen on 19-Jul-2017 19:54:55 GMT in reply to blog [0<--6946]
OPEN
What about standard vs. angular contact bearings?
Post #26 of 103. Posted by Jeff Hammond on 24-Jul-2017 12:39:21 GMT in reply to blog [0<--6950]
OPEN
That's a bit of a non-issue to me. I don't really see BB's wearing out from axial loads, so whatever bearing combos the main suppliers come up with seem to do the job.
Post #27 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Jul-2017 15:49:24 GMT in reply to post #26 [6950<--6952]
OPEN
Bought a U.P. Demo with SRAM Rival 22 crank setup. Had the bike shop install a Rival 1 drivetrain setup. Noticed that they had the preloader washer installed. It has a FSA b3155 bottom bracket. Do I need them to remove the preload washer and install the washers in your installation video? Where can I aquire the required washers?
Cheers
James
Post #28 of 103. Posted by James on 23-Aug-2017 21:27:35 GMT in reply to blog [0<--6995]
OPEN
Good morning
I have a scott Spark 930 at this moment im taking my bike for a upgrade, im trying to install the SRAM EAGLE XX1 but im having problems with the Bottom Bracket to match the ckankset and the frame of my bike, can you please tell or help me to get a solution, at this time i have the GXP but in the store they say that for my frame i need de PF-GXP, do you know if there is another options
Post #29 of 103. Posted by miguel mantilla on 13-Nov-2017 09:12:07 GMT in reply to blog [0<--7182]
OPEN
I don't know, so it's a Scott frame you're trying to install Eagle on? Maybe best to try with Scott or SRAM?
Post #30 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 13-Nov-2017 16:28:04 GMT in reply to post #29 [7182<--7183]
OPEN
Just to confirm, before I buy the wrong crank; I am interested in using a Race Face SixC on my new Classic U.P. (got one on my MTB and liking it). Do I need to order the 68/73mm shell width, or 83mm version?
Post #32 of 103. Posted by Craig on 24-Dec-2017 14:07:10 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8355]
OPEN
You actually need the Easton EC90 SL crank, which is the road sibling to the RaceFace Next SL. The SixC is a DH crank so wrong BB, wrong type of riding and wrong Q factor.
Post #34 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Dec-2017 11:23:36 GMT in reply to post #32 [8355<--8362]
OPEN
I am building an UPPER with SRAM Force 22 GXP cranks, Truvativ PressFit 30 Bottom Bracket, and FSA BB386EVO Bottom Bracket Adapters. This appears to be what is shown in the Video for a GXP setup. Can you confirm that this will work?
Post #35 of 103. Posted by James on 03-Jan-2018 13:00:14 GMT in reply to blog [0<--8368]
OPEN
Hi James, if you get the correct BB adaptors, i.e. for SRAM, then that should work.
Post #36 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 11-Jan-2018 21:21:37 GMT in reply to post #35 [8368<--8403]
OPEN
A question regarding ovalized rings. Do you know if an oval 50T chainring will fit in a Shimano 2X setup? Has anyone tried this as yet? I am hoping to use my Absolute Black 50/34 setup on the Open Up frame when it arrives soon.
Post #37 of 103. Posted by Gat64 on 11-Feb-2018 18:24:43 GMT in reply to blog [0<--10504]
OPEN
Hi Gat64. I tried the AB 46-30 rings on a Shimano crank/spider, and found that I couldn't get the di2 FD to properly clear the 30t. I suspect that this is a problem with the tight clearances of the U.P. (necessary for wide tyres) rather than a fault with the AB offset rings. As the AB 50-34 rings will maintain the same chainline, I see no reason whatsoever why they wouldn't work...
Post #38 of 103. Posted by Stuart on 06-Mar-2018 14:46:31 GMT in reply to post #37 [10504<--10543]
OPEN
Thanks Stuart. I was more concerned about the width of the 50 ring at it's widest point. The 50 oval ring is more like a 52 at it's widest, so I was concerned it might be too close to the chain stay. Might be only one way to find out...
Post #39 of 103. Posted by Gat64 on 07-Mar-2018 07:20:11 GMT in reply to post #38 [10543<--10544]
OPEN
I'd be fairly confident that the 50t oval wouldn't be too close to the chainstay, but as you say - there's only one way to be certain!
You may wish to check that you have some Delron around, in case shifting outboard by 1mm will solve a problem?!
Good luck, and do please report back!
Post #40 of 103. Posted by Stuart on 07-Mar-2018 09:11:34 GMT in reply to post #39 [10544<--10545]
OPEN
So I can confirm the Absolute Black 50/34 oval fits on the UP frame. This is with the rings mounted on an Ultegra 6800 crank. No shims required!!
Post #42 of 103. Posted by Scott Emery on 01-Apr-2018 12:12:31 GMT in reply to post #40 [10545<--10625]
OPEN
Great to hear! Enjoy :)
Post #43 of 103. Posted by Stuart on 01-Apr-2018 13:10:40 GMT in reply to post #42 [10625<--10627]
OPEN
Great to hear! Enjoy :)
Post #44 of 103. Posted by Stuart on 01-Apr-2018 13:10:42 GMT in reply to post #42 [10625<--10628]
OPEN
A "standard" oval ring is about 2 teeth bigger in diameter at it's biggest than a round ring. So a 50t ring fits like a 52t ring (and 90 degrees further like a 48t but that of course doesn't really matter). Now, the "crazy" oval rings have a much bigger delta, but they seem to be all over the place so tough to give a general guideline.
Post #41 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 08-Mar-2018 11:32:02 GMT in reply to post #37 [10504<--10556]
OPEN
Building up my U.P. and running into some difficulty with the crank installation. I have installed a Wheels Mfg 386evo abcd BB and now am attempting install of Easton EC90 sl crankset. The Easton crank uses the plastic preload tensioner on the non drive side similar to the Sram Force 1. However removing, like Andy does in the video for the Sram, leaves threads that won't allow a wave washer or other spacers to slide over. So I leave it on and follow the Easton instructions on install, which leaves several mm of space. When I use a couple 2.5mm spacers, specific to BB30 spindles, to take up the gap, the assembly does not spin freely upon tightening it all down. I know I am not over tightening. What have others done and is there something I am missing about the Easton EC90sl install? Any help appreciated. Dying to finish this UP and go for a ride!
Post #45 of 103. Posted by Douglas on 22-Apr-2018 15:29:55 GMT in reply to blog [0<--11717]
OPEN
Great video Andy! I would love an answer to the Easton EC90 SL question above.
Post #47 of 103. Posted by Shawn on 08-May-2018 14:56:33 GMT in reply to post #45 [11717<--11739]
OPEN
Hi Shawn, i really don't know the combination of that BB and that crank. The frame has really nothing to do with it, the BB housing is 86mm wide and that's it, whether it's brand A, B or OPEN. From there, the Wheels Mfg BB will have its way to assemble, and that leads to a certain width of that BB (same on any frame for that particular BB) and thus a certain delta with the Easton crank.

What that delta is and what is needed to make those two work, it would be best to ask somebody who at least knows one of those two parts intimately. I would think Easton is your best bet, once you measure the exact installed width of the Wheels Mfg BB, Easton should be able to tell you what spacers or pieces you need to install their crank with that installed width. Hope that makes sense?
Post #50 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-May-2018 06:30:04 GMT in reply to post #47 [11739<--12748]
OPEN
Hello Gerard,

It's been a learning curve and your message helps. Turns out Wheels Manufacturing sells their own spacers that work with their bottom brackets. Still not sure which side I should put the spacers on but I'm guessing Easton is the best source to answer that question. Love the bike!

-Shawn
Post #51 of 103. Posted by Shawn on 16-May-2018 13:14:41 GMT in reply to post #50 [12748<--12750]
OPEN
Hi Shawn, how did you go with your spacers? I'm having the very same problem with a C-Bear BB and Easton EC90SL crank. When leaving the Easton pre-load tensioner in place, there is 7mm of play, which is huge! I tried 4x 2.5mm spacers, too tight, tried 3x 2.5mm spacers, too loose. Was about to source 1mm spacers to micro adjust, but I noticed Easton have a BB30/OSBB Spacer Kit which I have since ordered and am awaiting. Hopefully they more approrpriately take up the slack.
Post #68 of 103. Posted by Michael on 07-Dec-2018 20:19:03 GMT in reply to post #51 [12750<--16129]
OPEN
What spacers did you end up using for the install? I tried to install my EC90 SL yesterday and ran into the same issue. I ended up using the 3.2mm and 2.5mm spacers from the Force 1 crank but there seems to be some odd tension. I called around to a few shops and nobody seems to know.
Post #76 of 103. Posted by Cliff on 06-Jul-2019 13:54:26 GMT in reply to post #68 [16129<--19661]
OPEN
Cliff I ended up using 5mm on the drive side, and 1mm + a wave washer on the non drive side.
Post #77 of 103. Posted by Michael on 06-Jul-2019 19:00:44 GMT in reply to post #76 [19661<--19662]
OPEN
I'm planning on running Rotor 3D+ 30mm cranks on my U.P. I've installed a Wheels MFG BB386EVO bottom bracket. 2 questions: Will I require spacers for bb clearance? Has anyone tried the Rotor one piece spidering with a 2x11 Sram setup? I tried it on a different model bike and found that the small chainring to small rear (bottom 4 in fact) wouldn't work. Cheers!
Post #46 of 103. Posted by mike wolfenden on 29-Apr-2018 01:01:01 GMT in reply to blog [0<--11726]
OPEN
Any ideas if you can get the 3.2mm nds spacer in th UK apparently the sram kit for the bb30 to bb386evo is not available here?
Post #48 of 103. Posted by Paul Spencer on 08-May-2018 16:24:36 GMT in reply to post #46 [11726<--11740]
OPEN
Hm, good question. Not sure who else offers that, a UK shop may be able to source that from one of their wholesalers. In doubt, shoot Andy a message via the contact form.
Post #49 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-May-2018 06:25:39 GMT in reply to post #48 [11740<--12747]
OPEN
replying to my own post here..... rotor 3d+ cranks required a 2.5mm spacer either side. The Rotor 46-30 spidering is not compatible with the bike, regardless of cassette choice: chain rubs on under side of chain-stay. The chain also rubs on the inside of the 46 tooth ring when in small-small combo (in fact in small to most of the bottom half of the cassette) but thats Rotor's problem.
Post #52 of 103. Posted by mike wolfenden on 25-Jun-2018 07:56:13 GMT in reply to post #46 [11726<--13850]
OPEN
Hi Mike

I have the same 3d+ 30 mm axcle rotors. Is yours a 130 mm PCD? Have you given up with the Rotor's?!

Thanks

george
Post #60 of 103. Posted by george hafidz on 02-Oct-2018 18:32:42 GMT in reply to post #52 [13850<--15015]
OPEN
Hi George. The crankset is excellent and fits just fine with spacers. The 46-30 spidering in incompatible with the bike.
Post #61 of 103. Posted by mike wolfenden on 03-Oct-2018 14:54:38 GMT in reply to post #60 [15015<--15026]
OPEN
Hi Mike thanks for replying. Could you just give me a summary of your setup including BB and chainring? Any info will be great and help me a lot as my frame hasn't arrived yet but I am trying to prepare all the parts. Thanks again. George
Post #62 of 103. Posted by george hafidz on 03-Oct-2018 16:37:10 GMT in reply to post #61 [15026<--15027]
OPEN
Responding to post #52: Some 46-30 combos definitely work, and it's not a matter of "regardless of cassette choice. Cassette, rear derailleur and chain length all combine with the chainring sizes to determine the chain angle and position, so sometimes it may rub on the chain stay and with other setups it may not.
Post #78 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 25-Aug-2019 11:34:23 GMT in reply to post #52 [13850<--19710]
OPEN
Will the new SRAM DUB XX1 crank fit into the ONE UP 386EVO?
Post #53 of 103. Posted by Edmund Yiu on 12-Jul-2018 23:16:05 GMT in reply to blog [0<--13903]
OPEN
No need for the very wide XX1 crank, you can fit a Force or Red DUB crank.
Post #89 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Nov-2019 16:47:30 GMT in reply to post #53 [13903<--19873]
OPEN
Hi, you mention above that the SRAM Rival 1 BB30 crank does not fit, however will a SRAM Rival 2x BB30 crank fit? I am not sure if there is any difference.
Post #54 of 103. Posted by Trav on 17-Jul-2018 00:48:59 GMT in reply to blog [0<--13907]
OPEN
Question about sub-compact: I'm keen to fit some sub compact rings to my 2x11 Open UP. I'm running Sram red with an XO exact actuation derailleur, a combo that i've succesfully run 46/33 up-front with XTR 11-40 out-back. I've attempted a Rotor 46/30 spidering and it's a definite no go with any cassette/ chain-length combo. So, I've picked up some Easton EC90 cranks with a plan to add some 46/36 rings. I know that the 46/36 will work. However, I'd rather go for the 47/32 option but am not keen to wastefully purchace another incompatible item. My question: has anyone tried out sub compact ring combos successfully? Would a 32 tooth ring cause chain rub on the chainstay when in the unadvisable small-small combo? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.
Post #55 of 103. Posted by mike wolfenden on 30-Jul-2018 05:46:26 GMT in reply to blog [0<--13923]
OPEN
Question about sub-compact: I'm keen to fit some sub compact rings to my 2x11 Open UP. I'm running Sram red with an XO exact actuation derailleur, a combo that i've succesfully run 46/33 up-front with XTR 11-40 out-back. I've attempted a Rotor 46/30 spidering and it's a definite no go with any cassette/ chain-length combo. So, I've picked up some Easton EC90 cranks with a plan to add some 46/36 rings. I know that the 46/36 will work. However, I'd rather go for the 47/32 option but am not keen to wastefully purchace another incompatible item. My question: has anyone tried out sub compact ring combos successfully? Would a 32 tooth ring cause chain rub on the chainstay when in the unadvisable small-small combo? Any insight will be greatly appreciated.
Post #56 of 103. Posted by mike wolfenden on 30-Jul-2018 05:46:28 GMT in reply to blog [0<--13924]
OPEN
Hi Mike, unfortunately I do not have an absolute answer. 32t is on the edge of what works, so then it really comes down to the exact set-up. So I can't guarantee the 47/32 will work.
Post #57 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 06-Aug-2018 10:20:20 GMT in reply to post #56 [13924<--13937]
OPEN
Hi Guys, with the the easton gravel sub compact chain rings a 2x 30/46 in the front would make a lot of sense for my for bigger gravel tours.
Does it mean that would not work? Planning to have an Ultra di2 groups?
Post #63 of 103. Posted by Mark on 07-Oct-2018 11:01:38 GMT in reply to post #57 [13937<--15031]
OPEN
Hi Mike, did the 47/32 rings work for you?
Post #70 of 103. Posted by Markus F on 27-Jan-2019 15:15:13 GMT in reply to post #56 [13924<--18207]
OPEN
I ended up going for 46/36
Post #71 of 103. Posted by mike wolfenden on 27-Jan-2019 23:46:55 GMT in reply to post #70 [18207<--18209]
OPEN
This is from a while back but I was not very sucessful with 48/32 on my OPEN. I was using a praxis and for some reason was getting really bad chainsuck. Now, it could have been from chainline or crank or.... (but crank works fine on my other bike that is on now, road rim brake bike and why I think this could have been chainline), regardless, 32 the chain is way too close to the drop chainstay, when the bike is turned around it almost touches it. I think 34T is the smallest ring I would run in a an OPEN
Post #72 of 103. Posted by Paulo on 09-Feb-2019 11:30:19 GMT in reply to post #56 [13924<--18263]
OPEN
Hi Gerard.

can I use this:

http://rotorbik...ctor: 148mm,
Chain line: 43.5mm

1X setup

Please let me know. Pity you do not use T47..

Thanks

George
(Norway)
Post #58 of 103. Posted by george hafidz on 01-Oct-2018 17:03:19 GMT in reply to blog [0<--15013]
OPEN
Link was broken after transmitting.

Its a Universal BB (threaded) from Rotor - UBB 4630

cranks are Rotor 3D+ road crank MAS, 130 mm PCD. Q = 148 mm and Chainline is 43.5 mm (standard double) but I plan to use it as a single chainring 1X or SS

Thanks

George
Post #59 of 103. Posted by george hafidz on 01-Oct-2018 17:06:14 GMT in reply to post #58 [15013<--15014]
OPEN
Your original post notes Sram rival 1 cranks will not work as different axle length to Force 1, is this still current?
I note on the current Sram website the Force 1 and Rival 1 cranksets have the same dimension centerline of bb to bearing face and to chainring.
Are the modern cranks the same?
Thanks in advance.
Post #64 of 103. Posted by Barryn Westfield on 04-Dec-2018 03:14:57 GMT in reply to blog [0<--16101]
OPEN
Apologies for multiple posts!
The article I was referring to was:
https://www.sra...Pages 47,48
Bit confusing why dims seems acceptable, but compatibility with BB386evo I now note only mentioned under the Force 1 data?
Post #67 of 103. Posted by Barryn Westfield on 04-Dec-2018 03:28:49 GMT in reply to post #64 [16101<--16104]
OPEN
Your original post notes Sram rival 1 cranks will not work as different axle length to Force 1, is this still current?
I note on the current Sram website the Force 1 and Rival 1 cranksets have the same dimension centerline of bb to bearing face and to chainring.
Are the modern cranks the same?
Thanks in advance.
Post #65 of 103. Posted by Barryn Westfield on 04-Dec-2018 03:14:57 GMT in reply to blog [0<--16102]
OPEN
Your original post notes Sram rival 1 cranks will not work as different axle length to Force 1, is this still current?
I note on the current Sram website the Force 1 and Rival 1 cranksets have the same dimension centerline of bb to bearing face and to chainring.
Are the modern cranks the same?
Thanks in advance.
Post #66 of 103. Posted by Barryn Westfield on 04-Dec-2018 03:15:00 GMT in reply to blog [0<--16103]
OPEN
Regarding the ONE+, you wrote: "The great thing of BB92 is that inside that 41mm diameter, you can also fit a super light and narrow bearing... This means you can put a crank with an oversized 30mm axle inside this compact 41mm BB shell."

But would you want to? I've gotten cautions from a number of folks who work on bikes (and reports on forums) that the smaller size required of the bearings, races, et al. to squeeze into the ~5mm of available space between axle and shell necessarily results in significantly reduced bearing lifespan and more frequent replacement.

Is it just a matter of what you're willing to put up with to make use of that 30mm crank you've had your heart set on?
Post #69 of 103. Posted by Nick on 03-Jan-2019 19:32:52 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18173]
OPEN
I have an Open UP & am thinking of converting to a SRAM etap set-up - can you advise re crank compatibility please?
Post #73 of 103. Posted by James on 25-May-2019 15:38:26 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18427]
OPEN
Hi. Just about to order my Open New UP and will be running Sram Red Etap AXS 2x 46/33. Initially I will be using 700c and adding a set of 650b later. Can you recommend a good quality bottom bracket that is a good match for Sram AXS chainset.
Many thanks, Brian
Post #74 of 103. Posted by Brian Burgess on 05-Jun-2019 12:40:28 GMT in reply to blog [0<--18557]
OPEN
I have the exact same question; what bottom bracket do you recommend for the UP with SRAM AXS 46/33 set-up? Reading mixed reviews on the dub BB.
Post #88 of 103. Posted by Renzo on 21-Nov-2019 14:07:20 GMT in reply to post #74 [18557<--19852]
OPEN
Well, you need a DUB BB for a SRAM crank. DUB just means the internal diameter of the bearings is 28.99mm. It doesn't tell you if the bearing is good or not. If you don't like the SRAM DUB BB then you can get a DUB BB from other brands, like Wheels Mfg, Enduro, Token, etc, etc.
Post #90 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Nov-2019 16:48:52 GMT in reply to post #88 [19852<--19874]
OPEN
Thanks Gerard; was indeed referring to the SRAM DUB version. Will have a look at the other brands you mention; anyone a recommendation?
Post #91 of 103. Posted by Renzo on 26-Nov-2019 17:06:40 GMT in reply to post #90 [19874<--19875]
OPEN
The best system to me of anything on the market are the thread-together styles of the Enduro Torqtite, the Wheels Mfg Thread together and the Token Ninja.
Post #92 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Nov-2019 11:36:40 GMT in reply to post #91 [19875<--19883]
OPEN
Hi, Would it be possible to use a full Rotor 1 x 13 group set up on the OPEN WIDE?
Post #75 of 103. Posted by Carl on 26-Jun-2019 09:10:09 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19638]
OPEN
The group fits on the frame, if that is what you mean?
Post #79 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 25-Aug-2019 11:35:51 GMT in reply to post #75 [19638<--19712]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
What's the spindle length of the BB30 Sram crank in the video? According to this image by Wolf Tooth there is a BB30 short and long spindle version: https://cdn.sho...54

I
have a Sram Force 1 crank with a spindle length of ca. 100mm (measured as in the picture) and want to figure out if I can use the exact spacer setup you mention in the video.

Many Thanks,
Lukas
Post #80 of 103. Posted by Lukas on 02-Sep-2019 15:08:10 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19750]
OPEN
You need the LONG spindle, that's the *new* Force 1 crank. The SHORT spindle is the older model (and the current BB30 model but not the model compatible with BB386EVO.
Post #81 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 02-Sep-2019 15:30:41 GMT in reply to post #80 [19750<--19751]
OPEN
Thanks Gerard!
Post #82 of 103. Posted by Lukas on 02-Sep-2019 15:35:08 GMT in reply to post #81 [19751<--19752]
OPEN
Does the new Sram Force 1 DUB crankset follow the same guildines as the video? I was having all sorts of trouble with my crank then realized it was installed with the preload washer on it, should I ditch that and go with the set up of spacers and washers in the video?
Post #85 of 103. Posted by eric blain on 20-Sep-2019 00:43:05 GMT in reply to post #81 [19751<--19769]
OPEN
Hi Eric, if you install the SRAM Force 1 DUB BB386EVO crank and SRAM BB386EVO bottom bracket, then you should use the preload washer but you don't need any other spacers or washers. If your crank was not originally a BB386EVO crank, then you may be able to remove spacers (but not the preload spacer!) to get it to BB386EVO width, but I am double-checking that with SRAM Tech.
Post #86 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 20-Sep-2019 04:36:13 GMT in reply to post #85 [19769<--19770]
OPEN
My mechanic swears every press-fit bottom bracket starts to creak within a year of purchase, which is making me wary of these bikes. Any comment?
Post #83 of 103. Posted by Dave Abrahams on 04-Sep-2019 21:40:25 GMT in reply to blog [0<--19756]
OPEN
Your mechanic is wrong (and why does he swear)? I have a very simple press-fit BB with sliding cups myself that never creaks, not after 4 years. It is mostly due to the roundness and tolerances of the BB area. But even the worst press-fit frame can be used without creaking, simply by putting a thread-together BB in. Wheels mfg and Enduro make them for example, and in those designs the two sides of the BB thread into each other. This solution is actually superior to a threaded BB shell (in a carbon frame). In order to have a threaded BB shell, you need to glue the threaded inserts into the carbon frame molding. So that means you now have another place the frame can fail. And of course, if the manufacturer did a bad job with the tolerances for press-fit, they will likely also do a bad job with the tolerances for the glue gap. so chances it will fail are high.

Bottomline, Thread-together BBs put the threads where they belong for good engineering, in the alloy parts. a threaded BB shell in a carbon frame doesn't, it puts the threads in the carbon product, which then obviously requires those additional threaded inserts to make that work, and which in turn can and do fail (before press-fit, this was a major problem and one of the reasons press-fit started to begin with).
Post #84 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 09-Sep-2019 08:46:25 GMT in reply to post #83 [19756<--19757]
OPEN
Absolutely spot on. I struggled with a BBRight press fit creaking and BB cups wandering despite repeated attempts by many mechanics to set things right. I finally took matters into my own hands and purchased the appropriate PF30 cutter for the park BB reaming and facing tool and the Campagnolo OS-fit cup installation tool. Once the shell is properly dimensioned you also need Loctite retaining compound, degreaser and primer for a proper installation. Sounds like overkill I would admit but I have installed several PF30 “family” BB this way and zero problems with creaking or movement of the BB or adapters/cups.
Post #87 of 103. Posted by w.gower on 24-Sep-2019 23:33:13 GMT in reply to post #84 [19757<--19775]
OPEN
That’s interesting. I have a BBright press fit type bottom bracket in a 6 year old Cervelo R3 that has almost about 18,000 miles on it, and the bottom bracket is the original one and has never creaked once. Not once! Bike has been ridden through dozens of torrential downpours along with Northern California and northern Italy summer dust. The interesting thing is that every single high zoot steel and ti frame with a threaded bb I owned prior to the Cervelo was impossible to stop BB creaking. I attribute that to the significantly stiffer Cervelo BB versus those flexy noodle steel and ti frames. What it proves to me is that PF bottom brackets creaking is more an urban legend driven mostly by poor frame bb tolerances and poor bb installs than reality for a well made frame and proper bb install.
Post #93 of 103. Posted by BobG on 01-Jan-2020 00:32:34 GMT in reply to post #83 [19756<--19967]
OPEN
Is it recommended to use a thread together PF bottom bracket vs. traditional press fit? Shimano GRX 1x crankset, open wide..comparing Enduro TorqTite vs. Kogel PF (or similar).
Post #94 of 103. Posted by junior77 on 21-Jan-2020 13:02:53 GMT in reply to blog [0<--20031]
OPEN
Ignore the question, I see it has already been answered.
Post #95 of 103. Posted by junior77 on 21-Jan-2020 13:07:02 GMT in reply to post #94 [20031<--20032]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
Will a Cannondale SI ever fit a Open UP?
Seems that the available spindle lenght are
109mm
132mm
137mm
If yes which one should I buy? with which adapters?

Thanks a lot
Post #96 of 103. Posted by Andrea Ferraresi on 17-Feb-2020 14:19:49 GMT in reply to blog [0<--20121]
OPEN
will Quarq DZero power bb30 work with Open Up frame? also would be interested running a single 48t flat wolftooth ring
Post #97 of 103. Posted by tonyp on 03-Mar-2020 13:59:05 GMT in reply to blog [0<--20127]
OPEN
Hi! I just purchased a Quarq Dfour power meter with a BB30. I figured this would be compatible with my road bike as I was running a Sram Force crankset with a BB30. When I attempted to install it, however, I realized that the spindle length was significantly shorter on the Quarq and couldn't it to work without compressing the bearings or rubbing the external bottom bracket frame. I was only able to install the Quarq by using the left arm sram force crank with the longer spindle. Seems to work great, but now I am running mis-matched cranks and find it very frustrating that nowhere does Quarq list the spindle length of their cranks. Is there a way I could have determined this before ordering the power meter? And do you see any problem with running mis-matched cranks that are both 175s?
Post #98 of 103. Posted by Matt on 10-Apr-2020 12:18:47 GMT in reply to blog [0<--21178]
OPEN
Hi Matt, the problem lies in the confusion of the term BB30. Lots of people think this means a crank with a 30mm diameter axle. It doesn't, even if many inside and outside of the industry use it like that. Officially, a BB30 crank is a crank with a 30mm diameter axle AND a length sized for a 68mm (so an "old school" narrow BB). If a crank has a 30mm axle but longer, for example sized for an 86mm BB, then it's for example a BB386EVO.

It doesn't help that bottom brackets for 30mm axles that press into the BB shell are called PF30 (press fit 30) and these can in principle be used various lengths of axle. Also, sometimes a BB30 crank DOES fit on a wider BB shell. Because the wider shells have gotten much more popular than the narrow BB shells, many crank makers don't make cranks with short axles anymore. They simply make a crank for the widest shell (86mm in the case of road, as we use for example) and then they provide spacers to fit it to the narrower BB shells. so a BB386EVO crank designed for an 86mm BB shell, plus 2x9mm spacers gives you something that fits a 68mm "BB30" BB shell.

It appears that your Quarq crank is the old model where it was still specific for BB30. I don't know, but there is a chance you could still make it work with a little trick. SRAM used to have a BB30 crank that could fit BB386EVO despite its short axle by removing some parts. See this video: https://www.you...
With
the solution you put together, I am not sure you have a centered crank and a low Q factor anymore, it would seem to me you now have your pedals shifted over to the right side. But I could be wrong. Is there a lot bigger clearance between the crank (on the pedal end) and the chain stay on the right side than the left? It should be roughly equal, 1-2mm difference is OK (also if one is dropped) but it shouldn't be 5mm or more.
Post #99 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 10-Apr-2020 12:30:00 GMT in reply to post #98 [21178<--21179]
OPEN
Thanks for the prompt response! I will have to read that a few times to figure out what all is going on, but it sounds like these companies are using the wrong terminology like you mentioned. The Sram that I pulled up said BB30 and PF30 on the spindle, and the Quarq was listed as BB30 in the specs. From what you explained the sram force is probably a mis-labled BB386EVO? The road bike is about a 2012 so it is surprising that the BB is so wide.

I think the crank is still pretty centered as I got it to line up with the front derailleur and the ends of the crank arms seem to have about the same distance from the chain stays, but I will double check. If the sides are even, sounds like there shouldn't be an issue aside from the aesthetics? An alloy 105/ultegra crank might match better to the quarq crank than my carbon force left crank arm perhaps?

Thanks again!
Post #100 of 103. Posted by Matt on 10-Apr-2020 13:49:06 GMT in reply to post #99 [21179<--21180]
OPEN
Well, a BB30 crank can work with a PF30 BB, so it can be both. And so it can say PF30 on the spindle to indicate that's the BB it needs. At any rate, if the clearance is equal, then the cranks are centered, unless your frame is crooked (or asymmetric by design).
Post #101 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 10-Apr-2020 14:28:47 GMT in reply to post #100 [21180<--21181]
OPEN
Can I fit Shimano GRX 2x11 (46/30) on a classic UP, what BB do you recommend, and is there anything specific about fitting (spacers, washers, etc) that I need to know?
Post #102 of 103. Posted by Craig on 20-May-2020 17:35:31 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22237]
OPEN
Yes you can. You can use any BB386EVO BB, we like the Enduro Torqtite or the Wheels Mfg thread-together style BB. Spacers and washers depend on the BB and usually the BB company will indicate what is needed.
Post #103 of 103. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 20-May-2020 18:32:55 GMT in reply to post #102 [22237<--22238]
Content
From:
To: