Campagnolo EKAR 1x13 new drivetrain

Gerard Vroomen - 24-Sep-2020
If you follow my posts, you may know I like 1x drivetrains. The front derailleur is such a primitive tool - two plates pushing against a chain until it falls off the chainring - as an engineer that I find that slightly offensive for a 21st century solution. Compare that to the intricacies of a rear derailleur.

Anyway, there is a place for 2x drivetrains, I just think in the future that place will be smaller as more and more cogs are added. When I ask people if they'll switch to 1x11 they may say no, but when I ask if they would switch to 1x13, almost everybody says yes. At some point, enough is enough and going 2x13 simply doesn't add much (other than lots of  overlapping gears).



Well, today is the day: Campagnolo is introducing a 1x13 group. I am very happy that this EKAR group exists, and from such an unexpected source. You see, at Eurobike 2015, Campagnolo gave me a preview of their first ever disc brake groupset. At that time, I told the engineer they should focus on 1x as they could make a real impact there. I also suggested they make a cassette that starts with a 9T cog. This makes it easier to have a good gear range without having jumps that are too big in the middle of the cassette.

In the years since, I asked every now and then if there was progress but I sort of lost hope. I even started offering a 9-32T cassette myself for the road because I didn't think anything would ever happen. Until 18 months ago that is. There, at SeaOtter 2019, I was shown this EKAR groupset. Not only was it 1x, not only did it have a 9T cog to start but it also had 13 cogs, making it infinitely better than the 11-speed cassette I had done.

Now that it's in production I can say, it's a very, very nice groupset. For me the most relevant features are:
  • 1x is all about the cassette ratios and Campagnolo has got it right. They offer 3 options: 9-36T, 9-42T and 10-44T. I've been telling every drivetrain maker in the world that 380-440% range is the sweet spot for gravel (of course it depends on the strength of the rider and where they ride). So to have one cassette at 400% and another at 440% in this new EKAR group is a gift from heaven for me. And the 9-42 is even bigger than that, so great for extreme rides and thanks to the 13-speed, the steps are still reasonable.
  • It's mechanical. I have nothing against electronic drivetrains, but I also have nothing against mechanical shifting. You push the lever, it shifts. What more can you wish for? And of course if you go into the wild, you have a better chance to MacGyver a mechanical derailleur than an electronic one.
  • There is just one rear derailleur that works with all cassettes, So no medium and large cages. This means that if you set it up well, you can switch between the cassettes without even changing the chain length. That's a great feature if you ride in a wide range or terrains or if you have separate road and gravel wheelsets that you switch between regularly.
  • The parts are beautiful, as you would expect from Campagnolo. The rear derailleur, the carbon crank, all very nice.


There is one thing to note when ordering the EKAR brakes:


  • For the front brake on a U-Turn or R-Turn fork, you need to order the (140mm) EKAR brake caliper without any adaptors plus the 160mm brake rotor. That together will work perfectly on the fork. The offset is already in the fork so no need for the adaptor.
  • For the rear brake on an UP or UPPER, you need to order the (140mm) EKAR brake caliper plus the adaptor for the 160mm position plus the 160mm brake rotor. Alternatively you can put the (140mm) EKAR brake caliper on the frame without any adaptor and pair it with the 140mm brake rotor.
  • For the rear brake on a MIND or the WIDE, you need to order the (140mm) EKAR brake caliper without any adaptors plus the 160mm brake rotor. The offset created by the adaptor is already built into these frames, so the 140mm caliper matches automatically with the 160mm rotor.


With the arrival of EKAR, you now have several nice drivetrain options:
  • If 1x12-speed is enough for you, SRAM Force/Eagle AXS gives you electronic shifting and massive gear ranges up to 520%.
  • If you want the most speeds in 1x and/or mechanical shifting, Campagnolo EKAR is your group.
  • 2x11 options come from Shimano with GRX, both mechanical and electronic.
  • For 2x12, our favorite is the Force AXS electronic groupset (best value for money) with the Max 36T rear derailleur and 10-36T cassette. Up front we prefer the 46/33T chainrings as it comes with the narrow Q crank while the 43/30T comes with a wide Q crank. Note that once you have the 46/33T crank, you can later change to the 43/30T rings on that crank and it keeps the narrow Q.
Update: If you’re interested in the Ekar groupset, we now offer it on several bikes:

  • The U.P. with Ekar creates a very versatile bike for paved road and gravel riding. We spec it with the 9-42T cassette for maximum flexibility. If you run 2 wheelsets, then it may make sense to use 9-42T on your gravel wheels and 9-36T on your road wheels (although there are also plenty of customers who run 9-42T on everything). The bike is finished with an ENVE cockpit and my favorite wheelset, the HED Emporia GA Pro (700c and 650b options). This alloy gravel wheelset is very light but at the same time durable, a you would expect from the wheel pioneers at HED.
  • The U.P.P.E.R. with Ekar offers the same versatility but obviously with our lighter frame.
  • Last but not least, combining the Ekar groupset in combination with the WI.DE frame is perfect for more extreme gravel riding, in particular if you go all-out with the 650b wheel option.
Note: the photos in this post are of the personal WI.DE. bike of Campagnolo engineer Nicolo Martinello. So the spec is not exactly the same as our complete bikes. Please check the spec list here for the UPUPPER and WIDE.

Comments & Questions

OPEN
Is there a post mount option for the original Rapha UP?
Post #1 of 101. Posted by Tony on 24-Sep-2020 08:10:36 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22561]
OPEN
No, but there are adaptors available to put a flatmount brake on a postmount frame. A little clumsy but that does exist. At that point you may be better off selling your old bike and buying a new one though, the second-hand market is very strong nowadays.
Post #12 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 11:57:32 GMT in reply to post #1 [22561<--22573]
OPEN
Just to clarify for later readers, it could only be vice versa. You can put a post-mount brake on a flat-mount frame, but it would be geometrically impossible to put a flat-mount caliper on a post-mount frame.
Post #69 of 101. Posted by Hans on 15-Nov-2020 16:19:13 GMT in reply to post #12 [22573<--22739]
OPEN
Actually adaptors exist for both. but the flat mount caliper on post mount brake adaptor is really elaborate and I would say ugly.
Post #71 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-Nov-2020 03:03:31 GMT in reply to post #69 [22739<--22741]
OPEN
Hubh, that is crazy.! Can you provide a link? I'd love to know about this option and I can't imagine how this would work.
Post #73 of 101. Posted by Hans on 16-Nov-2020 06:01:19 GMT in reply to post #71 [22741<--22755]
OPEN
Nevermind, I found it!! https://www.ass...Sorry for incorrect information!
Post #74 of 101. Posted by Hans on 16-Nov-2020 06:04:58 GMT in reply to post #73 [22755<--22756]
OPEN
What size chainrings do they make?
I can’t find any information in the web.
Post #2 of 101. Posted by CP on 24-Sep-2020 08:14:21 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22562]
OPEN
I have read even sizes from 38 to 44t.
Post #7 of 101. Posted by karlotta on 24-Sep-2020 09:14:36 GMT in reply to post #2 [22562<--22568]
OPEN
Indeed, 38-40-42-44T
Post #13 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 11:57:51 GMT in reply to post #2 [22562<--22574]
OPEN
Wow, this is a great new addition to the bike world. A serious option for a future build.
Post #3 of 101. Posted by Jannik on 24-Sep-2020 08:34:45 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22564]
OPEN
You completely forgot your AXS hack, using a 12-speed Rotor Cassette with AXS. These have a much better spread compared to SRAM cassettes. I am using that with complete satisfaction.
Post #4 of 101. Posted by Michiel Janssen on 24-Sep-2020 08:37:32 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22565]
OPEN
That wasn't really the topic of the blog :-)
Post #14 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 11:58:33 GMT in reply to post #4 [22565<--22575]
OPEN
Which chain/crankset are you using with this combination?
Post #81 of 101. Posted by Rafael on 06-May-2021 17:39:24 GMT in reply to post #4 [22565<--23131]
OPEN
Standard SRAM crankset single ring Red and a XO/XX 12 speed chain with a XX AXS RD. So all standard SRAM except for the cassette from Rotor.
Post #82 of 101. Posted by Michiel on 06-May-2021 17:47:33 GMT in reply to post #81 [23131<--23133]
OPEN
Oh la la!
Post #5 of 101. Posted by Bengt Novik on 24-Sep-2020 08:41:23 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22566]
OPEN
Too nice. Slam dunk by Campagnolo. Design. Check, Functionality. Check. Looks. Check.
Post #6 of 101. Posted by Xaver on 24-Sep-2020 08:44:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22567]
OPEN
great post. do you know, if you can use third party narrow-wide chainrings on this goupset? thx, Stefan
Post #8 of 101. Posted by Stefan on 24-Sep-2020 10:14:37 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22569]
OPEN
I haven't seen anybody making one narrow enough yet.
Post #15 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 11:58:59 GMT in reply to post #8 [22569<--22576]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
I like Campa very much from my old Bianchi times with the Nuovo Record group and I sympathize with the EKAR 1x13 group.
But what about the chain width and durability for a 13 ring casette?
Even the 11 compatible chain from SRAM has a quite limited life time unless you risk to exchange chain and the costly casette together because the new chain doesn't fit anymore with the used casette.
Are there any "endurance data" available?
Cheers,
Roland
Post #9 of 101. Posted by Roland on 24-Sep-2020 10:27:12 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22570]
OPEN
I have seen data but I am not sure what is public. I can say though that I am satisfied. Best to ask Campy if they publish the actual data, I have no idea (I rarely see manufacturers publish this other than in very general terms but you never know).
Post #16 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 12:00:44 GMT in reply to post #9 [22570<--22577]
OPEN
Oh My!! Now that is beautiful, functional, and Campy! My fav....!
Post #10 of 101. Posted by Jim Gomillion on 24-Sep-2020 10:40:31 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22571]
OPEN
is this group available right now? is it only available with Shamal wheels thus no option to build a wheel with a dynamo hub?
Post #11 of 101. Posted by Ray on 24-Sep-2020 11:56:27 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22572]
OPEN
The dynamo is in the front wheel right? The only proprietary thing you need for EKAR is the freehub body in the rear wheel. So not really a problem, but maybe you do need to ditch a front hub and some spokes out of a complete wheel. But some will start offering N3W free hubs as well, so I think eventually you'll be able to find what you need.
Post #17 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 12:02:05 GMT in reply to post #11 [22572<--22578]
OPEN
Thank you Gerard but is this groupies already available to order? The dynamo is indeed in the front wheel
Post #18 of 101. Posted by Ray on 24-Sep-2020 12:14:05 GMT in reply to post #17 [22578<--22579]
OPEN
Yes it is.
Post #19 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 12:25:51 GMT in reply to post #18 [22579<--22580]
OPEN
Reading your emphatic arguments for 1x and 400% GR, I am wondering what your position is on "true gems" = 1x drivetrains with internally geared hubs...
Post #20 of 101. Posted by Siggy on 24-Sep-2020 12:26:35 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22581]
OPEN
The only 1x that makes sense
Post #23 of 101. Posted by youpmelone on 24-Sep-2020 15:35:16 GMT in reply to post #20 [22581<--22584]
OPEN
If low maintenance and toughness are more important than weight and efficiency, they are a great solution.
Post #28 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 24-Sep-2020 17:40:30 GMT in reply to post #20 [22581<--22589]
OPEN
Maybe time to ditch the UP with posted-mounted TRP HiRds / Potenza grouppo for this set-up and a new frame!
Post #21 of 101. Posted by JB on 24-Sep-2020 12:43:17 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22582]
OPEN
Are you guys going to sell an Ekar built wi.de?
Post #22 of 101. Posted by Jock deBoer on 24-Sep-2020 13:53:29 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22583]
OPEN
if the answer is a "yes", i would very strongly considering one!
Post #29 of 101. Posted by Robert Braun on 24-Sep-2020 18:55:06 GMT in reply to post #22 [22583<--22590]
OPEN
me too
Post #30 of 101. Posted by Jock deBoer on 24-Sep-2020 19:01:13 GMT in reply to post #29 [22590<--22591]
OPEN
wow - very promising product - thanks for the early announcement! I tried to get some more Info and it seems that the chainring in the offered group sets available till now is related to the related to the crank-arm length?
So, smallest with 40T only goes with a 170mm crank-arm? Is that early stage of a new product situation or what is behind?
And second, smallest chainring seems to be 40T - with a 9-42T I would not like to get higher than 36 or max 38T in the front...
or are there possibilities to mix with different group components?
Post #24 of 101. Posted by TA on 24-Sep-2020 16:18:52 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22585]
OPEN
Somebody else mentioned that, but in my OEM pricelist from Campy they have all chainrings (38-40-42-44) with all crank lengths (165-170-172.5-175). And I know for a fact that they are already producing the 38T with all four crank lengths at least for OEM. For the chainring you cannot mix with other Campy groups as you need the narrow-wide design and only EKAR has that.
Post #46 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Sep-2020 16:13:19 GMT in reply to post #24 [22585<--22613]
OPEN
There is a lot of bias in the piece above, which is fine since it is your opinion and your commercial website, however it might leave a good part of the the Open UP clients out in the cold. 1x is still is a solution searching for a problem, 12 speed or 13 speed. The whole idea of on UP was to have one bike which can do all. And for that a 400% range is definitely too small.

The best groupset out there currently is Shimano GRX Di2, the new upcoming Dura Ace shows that.. It's trickle up time.
I have all main versions of shimano groups DI2, and some of them are prototypes, as I do have the RED AXS.

Best setup currently, road and gravel:
Shifters and brakes GRX (unparalleled brake modulation)
Dura Ace Crank, 50 /34
10-42 / 11-40 / 11-46 (yes it works perfectly) cassette
RX817 rear der (no typo), it works better and faster than the 815
chain length: large large minus 1.5 (chain length is crucial)
try 12 speed shimano
dura ace fd
Program synchro shifting to avoid the 2 largest cassette cogs while on the big ring (or largest 3 when using the 11-46)
(go from 3rd largest to 5th largest when down shifting to 34) (the programming is stored in the battery so use any dura ace / ultegra rd to program the synchro shift and then swap)

640% range, perfect shifting, never dropping a chain.
If you're going for a 5 to 10 hour ride exploring new gravel roads.. in the Alps, the dolomites, the Jura, Schwarzwald, California, Andes.. 640% is a no brainer. with the added bonus op far superior breaking, ergonomics etc there is no facts based reason to go 1x, and def not AXS.



Mechanical vs Electric.
Looking up DI2stats i see a shift around a 1000 times per 2.5 to 3 hours a very undulating parcours.
that solves the discussion Mechanical vs Electric.

If you hate walking with a bike, or if you are very careful with your knees GRX Di2 2x in the above setup it is..
Post #25 of 101. Posted by youpmelone on 24-Sep-2020 16:35:54 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22586]
OPEN
Thank you ! We are drinking from the same gravy boat.
Post #32 of 101. Posted by Jeff Vader on 25-Sep-2020 00:21:47 GMT in reply to post #25 [22586<--22594]
OPEN
I like how what you like is what everyone else should like. Hold onto that 2x stuff because like rim brakes it'll be a memory for off road use in a few years. Overlapping gears and 640% percent gear spread, two things I certainly don't need.
Post #33 of 101. Posted by Jeff on 25-Sep-2020 01:06:26 GMT in reply to post #25 [22586<--22595]
OPEN
It is not about like, it is about facts. Everyone can like what they want. Bike riding is about emotion, I love my titanium bike, will never state it is better because based on facts it simple is way less aero and stiff. Still love riding it. 640% has nothing to do with overlapping. It is about the range = do you have a big enough gear to support you in a 20km downhill at 3%, or do you have a small enough gear to get up the mountain at 15% average on gravel for 3 hrs.

1x is superior for the bike manufacturers, less components, less manufacturing steps, less testing, less planning, less costs, higher margin.
Facts based, it isnt superior for the user of the bike.
Post #34 of 101. Posted by youpmelone on 25-Sep-2020 04:36:14 GMT in reply to post #33 [22595<--22596]
OPEN
Lots of emotion in your facts. The fact is, most riders don't need 640% range. If you do, great, but most don't. They are perfectly happy with a 380% or 420% or 500% range for where THEY ride. If that's not enough for you is fine, then go with something else. But just because you need 640% for where you want to ride with your setup and your legs and your engine, doesn't mean everybody does. Why do people need the gears to ride in places they'll never go?

Also, your idea about less cost and higher margin is also demonstrably false. With many drivetrains, the delta is quite small (1x cassette and chainring are more expensive) and with many bikes, their 1x versions are offered for less than the 2x versions. I'm the last to say "the market fixes everything" but hte bike market with its 100's of brands is so price competitive that you can't make a bigger margin on a 1x bike than a 2x bike because one of the other brands will jump into that hole.
Post #35 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 25-Sep-2020 10:30:00 GMT in reply to post #34 [22596<--22598]
OPEN
"Lots of emotion in your facts", :-)) Not much, wouldnt know where. Di2stats shows exactly in which gears i spend the most time, and pre corona i would ride all over the world so I have a pretty good overview of what you need where. Granted, most is hilly or mountainous.

"They are perfectly happy with a 380% or 420% or 500% range for where THEY ride."
that's ok. But perfectly happy doesn't mean better, it means they dont know what they miss, or compromise because there is no other way, or they really don't need it.

If you have a "One Bike can do all" bike then why would you reduce your range for no benefit?

I still dont know what problem 1x solves on a roadframe.. unless you like walking, or never get on new "open" roads which is even more sad..
Post #36 of 101. Posted by youpmelone on 25-Sep-2020 13:36:08 GMT in reply to post #35 [22598<--22599]
OPEN
The problem that 1x specifically addresses for me is chainsuck, when you ride those "open" roads in all conditions. It can, and does, happen with brand new components and the results are never pretty.

A 1x specific frame design, per the Open WI.DE., also permits the use of wider tyres.
Post #55 of 101. Posted by John B. on 28-Sep-2020 11:24:19 GMT in reply to post #36 [22599<--22634]
OPEN
I've seen youtube videos about chainsuck but i never actually experienced it (neither on sram, shimano 9 to 11 speed mtb or road)
I've had my mtb cleats and shoes so dirty that i could not clip in, another reason why i hate getting off the bike and walk..
But is chainsuck really is a major issue it is the first time i read an actual benefit of 1x.
(however for me that would be instantly offsetted by the dropping of the chain which is rather inconvenient, and makes carbon frames less pretty.. )
Post #56 of 101. Posted by youpmelone on 29-Sep-2020 07:07:52 GMT in reply to post #55 [22634<--22635]
OPEN
Wet, gritty dirt roads are very effective at causing chainsuck and it is a major issue where I cycle most, in New England. I'm unclear what "dropping of the chain" you are referring to, however.
Post #57 of 101. Posted by John B. on 29-Sep-2020 12:52:33 GMT in reply to post #56 [22635<--22636]
OPEN
I find the opening of this post -- the inelegance of the 2x -- to really resonate. I just helped a friend with a build and in this process remembered how much I hate front derailleurs (SRAM Force22 in this case, but they're all basically the same). I have been running 1x on my gravel/commuter/'cross and road bikes now for a number of years. At first I noticed the less nuanced shifting, but now that everything is 1x I don't notice at all. I do not miss the dropped chains -- especially trying to wedge them around a chain catcher! The gear range on both of my bikes is plenty for me -- gravel bikes has the 10-42t cassette with a 44t chainring and road bike has a Shimano 11-40t with a 50t chainring. Both loosely equivalent to what I had in a 2x system before this and neither leaving me wanting for gears in either direction. (Though I might run a 1x12 SRAM conversion w/ eagle on my next gravel bike.)
Post #70 of 101. Posted by Hans on 15-Nov-2020 16:26:01 GMT in reply to post #35 [22598<--22740]
OPEN
How about GRX 815 (31/48) instead of Dura Ace (50/34) at the front?
Post #100 of 101. Posted by rrradek on 26-Aug-2022 07:48:03 GMT in reply to post #25 [22586<--24664]
OPEN
31/48 is lovely with a 10/42. You'll need the 10 else you spin out easily on long 2% descents (long valley down etc)
I was very happy with the 10 in the Strade
Post #101 of 101. Posted by youpmelone on 26-Aug-2022 08:45:15 GMT in reply to post #100 [24664<--24665]
OPEN
This drivetrain looks just lovely, like what SRAM should have released on the mechanical front but won't. Kudos for Campy!
Post #26 of 101. Posted by Ron Reed on 24-Sep-2020 16:44:15 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22587]
OPEN
My mechanical Force 1x is so 2016 now.
Post #27 of 101. Posted by Mike on 24-Sep-2020 16:57:26 GMT in reply to post #26 [22587<--22588]
OPEN
Is it possible to use a Rotor 1X DM crank and chain ring with this group. Or does one need to wait until Rotor makes Campy specific rings?
Post #31 of 101. Posted by Adrian Engel on 24-Sep-2020 20:36:33 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22592]
OPEN
I think the 13-sp Rotor rings are a bit thicker than the Campagnolo 13-sp rings.
Post #37 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 25-Sep-2020 17:13:43 GMT in reply to post #31 [22592<--22600]
OPEN
Can I direct buy from this site and have the bike delivered to my home ?.
Cheers
Post #38 of 101. Posted by Mat on 26-Sep-2020 00:38:18 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22601]
OPEN
We sell the framesets and a complete Force/Eagle bike online: https://opencyc...rame. For complete EKAR bikes, you can spec those with any of the OPEN retailers: https://opencyc...tobuy
Post #41 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Sep-2020 11:18:30 GMT in reply to post #38 [22601<--22608]
OPEN
ooouuuuuuhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Campagnolo 100% !!!! Love it!
Post #39 of 101. Posted by Sg on 26-Sep-2020 06:15:03 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22603]
OPEN
A question; which front chainring is optimal for Ekar? They list 38t, 40t, and 42t in 170, 172.5, 175. I have a medium frame WI DE and run 172.5 on road bike. I was thinking the gravel speed cassette. Also, will one need the almighty campy chain tool because quick links are not compatible? And for rear freehub the NW3? Which wheel set? Thanks Gerard!
Post #40 of 101. Posted by Alan Montgomery on 26-Sep-2020 11:13:22 GMT in reply to post #39 [22603<--22605]
OPEN
Not sure what they list where but in principle all 4 chainring sizes are available with all 4 crank lengths. The best chainring depends on your strength, terrain and the cassette you pick, I can't possibly give you a number. but I doubt that many need the 44T, in fact I think the chainrings are a bit on the large side and I would like to see at least a 36T as well. I told them this a while ago too but I can't comment on if/when that will happen.

There is a quick link option now on the chain. There are several manufacturers offering N3W wheel sets, the free hub bodies are retrofittable on some wheels too.
Post #42 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Sep-2020 11:22:07 GMT in reply to post #40 [22605<--22609]
OPEN
Thank you! I will probably go with the 38t. Was thinking the SRAM groupset but the campag offering in mechanical as you say will not leave you stranded. I have no experience with electronic. I know the quick link is always a contested topic by mechanics and owners of Record and SR. Some say peening is the only correct way to ensure proper chain performance on the narrower 11/12 speed chains? Thanks Gerard! Am excited to get this bike built.
Post #43 of 101. Posted by Alsn Montgomery on 26-Sep-2020 11:50:36 GMT in reply to post #42 [22609<--22610]
OPEN
Of course the odds of being stranded is obviously quite small, and the odds of it happening in an area with zero support a small percentage of that. So for most people not a decisive point, but probably neither are any other between electronic and mechanical.
Post #44 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 26-Sep-2020 12:11:55 GMT in reply to post #43 [22610<--22611]
OPEN
Thanks! If you were to decide today on which way to go with the WI DE SRAM groupset or Ekar, which would you choose? I will take that as an expert advice ????
Post #45 of 101. Posted by Alsn Montgomery on 26-Sep-2020 14:55:05 GMT in reply to post #44 [22611<--22612]
OPEN
They're both nice, I don't think you can go either way and not be very happy. I wouldn't worry about that choice, really. In the end your tire choice will probably have a bigger impact.
Post #49 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Sep-2020 09:21:24 GMT in reply to post #45 [22612<--22625]
OPEN
Hi Gerard, could you please specify which cassette and which crankset sizes are mounted on the bike shown above from Campa engineer Nicola Martinello. Many thanks, Christian
Post #47 of 101. Posted by Christian on 26-Sep-2020 19:16:21 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22616]
OPEN
That's a 9-42T cassette and 38T chainring.
Post #48 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 27-Sep-2020 09:13:17 GMT in reply to post #47 [22616<--22624]
OPEN
Oh wow! An U.P.P.E.R. with an Ekar group would probably be the closest thing to the perfect bike. Just one question though, is it not possible to use 140mm Ekar-rotors on an U.P./U.P.P.E.R.? Why is that? Sorry for the noob question :)
Post #50 of 101. Posted by Anders on 27-Sep-2020 18:07:41 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22627]
OPEN
For the rear, you can put a 140mm caliper and 140mm rotor without any adaptors onto the frame. for the front, you can only mount a 160mm rotor and you need the 140mm caliper without adaptors to do it.
Post #53 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 28-Sep-2020 05:58:44 GMT in reply to post #50 [22627<--22631]
OPEN
Ok, thought so. Thanx :)
Post #54 of 101. Posted by Anders on 28-Sep-2020 07:53:23 GMT in reply to post #53 [22631<--22632]
OPEN
Hi Gerard,
how will this group go with my brand new (just bought them 2 weeks ago) Zipp 303 Firecrest wheels? Do you think it will come in electronic?
Post #51 of 101. Posted by Michael Heenan on 27-Sep-2020 20:49:57 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22628]
OPEN
Well, you'd need to get a N3W free hub for the zipp wheel. I am not sure if that exists yet (I assume not since zipp is owned by SRAM and I doubt Campagnolo gave SRAM advance warning of the upcoming EKAR). But Zipp might start to produce that freehub, you'd need to ask them.

About EKAR in electronic, you'd have to ask Campagnolo. I can never comment on what drivetrain makers have in the pipeline, otherwise they wouldn't tell us anything (and so my reluctance to answer is in no way an indication of what the answer would be).
Post #52 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 28-Sep-2020 05:03:43 GMT in reply to post #51 [22628<--22630]
OPEN
Can the chain be used in a 2x setup?
Post #58 of 101. Posted by Harry on 30-Sep-2020 01:24:01 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22637]
OPEN
I don't think so, it's super narrow so it would get stuck on the thicker 2x12 teeth.
Post #60 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 30-Sep-2020 09:02:19 GMT in reply to post #58 [22637<--22639]
OPEN
Ok, but does Campy, or another manufacturer, has plans to produce thin chainrings that could be used in a 2 x setup?
If yes, do you think that the chain would work there?
BTW what is the thickness of the chainrings?
Post #62 of 101. Posted by Harry on 30-Sep-2020 09:47:33 GMT in reply to post #60 [22639<--22641]
OPEN
If your question is whether you could make a 2x13 setup the answer is no, the rear derailleur wouldn't have the capacity to take up the extra chain slack from the front chainring difference.
Post #63 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 30-Sep-2020 10:28:05 GMT in reply to post #62 [22641<--22642]
OPEN
Thx, was looking for the derailleur capacity, could find it. Can you advise?
Post #64 of 101. Posted by Harry on 30-Sep-2020 11:38:00 GMT in reply to post #63 [22642<--22643]
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They don't really specify but it's specific to shift up to the 10-44 cassette so that would mean the capacity is 34T. And even that doesn't mean you could run the 9-36T with two chainrings that are only 7T difference, it still may not work.
Post #66 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 30-Sep-2020 16:35:56 GMT in reply to post #64 [22643<--22645]
OPEN
What's the issue with the Campagnolo and Shimano derailleurs, why does the cable need to enter from behind and do a huge loop in the open, waiting for any branch and rock to catch it? I doubt the cable outer is effective for changing the direction of the cable, and will get worn much faster than a straight cable.
Post #59 of 101. Posted by Ivo Roylev on 30-Sep-2020 06:25:19 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22638]
OPEN
OK - now you've given me a difficult problem. Do I go for the MIN.D. with EKAR or the 3T Strada with the same? Seriously, I've lost sleep over the past couple of days. I know you'll say [accurately] that I would be delighted either way, but what do you see as the differences? I'm in Canada and I think availability is about the same.
Post #61 of 101. Posted by Fred Newton on 30-Sep-2020 09:08:59 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22640]
OPEN
Don't lose sleep over it. They are very different bikes although of course they can do the same thing, ride comfortably on roads even if they're rough. The MIN.D. focuses a bit more on comfort for the frame shapes, the MIN.D. on aerodynamics. That's it.
Post #65 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 30-Sep-2020 16:33:20 GMT in reply to post #61 [22640<--22644]
OPEN
Any recommendations on a tire to max out on the Wi.de? 650b and 700c.
Post #67 of 101. Posted by Jock deBoer on 21-Oct-2020 10:26:22 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22703]
OPEN
So many options but the first step is the terrain you ride. And the conditions which determine the mud clearance you need. And then each tire fits differently on different rim widths, so that makes the question almost impossible to answer. Which is also the reason people talk about tires so much in gravel, cause it's a debate that will never be finished. The Schwalbe G-One 2.25" (which fits wide on most rims) is a good place to start as a general purpose tire, and then you can go from there to add more knobs or less, go a bit wider or narrower, etc.
Post #72 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-Nov-2020 03:23:56 GMT in reply to post #67 [22703<--22746]
OPEN
Is Ekar chain construction similar to any other chain made for der. ( 2.4 mm wide roller, one thickness for whole link lenght ), or to Campy 12 chain ( 2.4 mm roller, thinner links where inner one meets outer ), or there is some novelty, eg. narrower roller?
Post #68 of 101. Posted by Krzysztof Gzyl on 08-Nov-2020 16:43:45 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22729]
OPEN
Can I use other brand's crankset on EKAR?
Post #75 of 101. Posted by Sakurai Mai on 16-Jan-2021 15:25:38 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22844]
OPEN
I am currently building the same bike, but it looks like the bottom bracket does not fit the crank set. Which one exactly did you use to match the ekar cranks. Cheers Tim
Post #76 of 101. Posted by Tim on 30-Jan-2021 09:40:34 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22917]
OPEN
I presume you have the EKAR crank? Then what you need is this BB:
Part#: IC21-PRBB386
ID#: 0112754
Description: BB386 Press-Fit PRO-TECH cups 86,5x46
Post #79 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 15-Mar-2021 05:03:05 GMT in reply to post #76 [22917<--23000]
OPEN
Gerard, what bb do you recommend using with the ekar? I have the campy ekar group and trying to build it on the wide frame. I thought I had the right bb and crankset but it’s not fitting properly.
Post #77 of 101. Posted by Chris on 14-Mar-2021 13:54:17 GMT in reply to blog [0<--22995]
OPEN
I presume you have the EKAR crank? Then you need this BB:
Part#: IC21-PRBB386
ID#: 0112754
Description: BB386 Press-Fit PRO-TECH cups 86,5x46
Post #78 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 15-Mar-2021 05:02:31 GMT in reply to post #77 [22995<--22999]
OPEN
Gerard,
The bb you spec in your response is the bb I have. I have installed it and when I tighten the crank bolt it seems to put to much load on the bearing making pedaling the crank feel very tight... when I back off the bolt to free up the bearings the left crank arm has slack in it. It seems the Wides bb shell is to wide for the ekar crank. Have you seen this problem on the ekar crank install on a Wide?
Chris
Post #80 of 101. Posted by Chris on 16-Mar-2021 14:57:35 GMT in reply to post #78 [22999<--23006]
OPEN
Hi, I had exactly the same issue using these on a 3T exploro team build with Ekar and in the end I just installed a normal Record BB and solved the problem.
Post #83 of 101. Posted by stephen on 23-Jun-2021 08:08:29 GMT in reply to post #80 [23006<--23205]
OPEN
Hello, did you install the Ekar crankset on normal Ultra Torque cups? Does it work well?
Post #84 of 101. Posted by Mario on 23-Aug-2021 11:18:58 GMT in reply to post #83 [23205<--23289]
OPEN
Part#: IC21-PRBB386
ID#: 0112754
Description: BB386 Press-Fit PRO-TECH cups 86,5x46
Post #85 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 23-Aug-2021 15:25:52 GMT in reply to post #84 [23289<--23290]
OPEN
I really want it on my Mind, but no 160mm crank option available :(
Any ideas @Gerard?
Post #86 of 101. Posted by Alexander K on 16-Nov-2021 03:46:46 GMT in reply to blog [0<--24346]
OPEN
165mm is the shortest Campagnolo offers. If you have a 160mm crank that comes with an Ekar compatible ring, then that could be an option but I am not aware of them.

BUT: I do know that Wolftooth chainrings designed for 12-speed SRAM road chains also work fine with Ekar 13-speed, so if you check on Wolftooth's website all the bolt patterns available for those 12-speed road rings, you might find one that matches the 160mm crank of your choice.
Post #87 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-Nov-2021 11:02:31 GMT in reply to post #86 [24346<--24350]
OPEN
Thanks Gerard! That might be good idea.
I already own a Wide and a Up and will now buy the Mind.
Martin from your team already helps me - but is there any chance to reach out to you regarding some quick questions?
Thanks,

Alex
Post #88 of 101. Posted by Alexander K. on 16-Nov-2021 11:14:23 GMT in reply to post #87 [24350<--24351]
OPEN
you can send any question to Martin and if needed it will end up with me anyway!
Post #89 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-Nov-2021 11:27:52 GMT in reply to post #88 [24351<--24352]
OPEN
Thanks!
I will then buy an Ekar set for my Mind.
I am quite heavy (100kg) and use currently SRAM Etap 48/35 and 10-36 on my road bike (Caledonia 5). On my Wide I use 10-52 and 38t and on my Up I use 10-44 and 40t.
Should I go for 38t or 40t with the 9-42 cassette? Or maybe take the 10-44?
Thank you,

Alex
Post #90 of 101. Posted by Alexander K. on 16-Nov-2021 13:31:46 GMT in reply to post #89 [24352<--24354]
OPEN
It all depends on where you ride and how strong you are, hard for me to say. If the gearing on your Caledonia is sufficient, then you could go with the 42T chainring and the 9-42T cassette. IF you want to focus a bit more on your climbing gear, then the 40T makes sense.
Post #91 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 16-Nov-2021 15:16:15 GMT in reply to post #90 [24354<--24355]
OPEN
Hi Gerard, thanks again!
Now i will order the Ekar and the Mind.
Is this the chainring which will work with it: https://www.wol...hanks and best wishes,
Alex
Post #92 of 101. Posted by Alexander K. on 17-Nov-2021 13:45:16 GMT in reply to post #91 [24355<--24356]
OPEN
sorry, here the correct link:
https://www.wol...rings
Post #93 of 101. Posted by Alexander K. on 17-Nov-2021 13:45:58 GMT in reply to post #92 [24356<--24357]
OPEN
Yes, dropstop B seems to be the correct profile. BCD depends on the crank you use it on of course.
Post #94 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 17-Nov-2021 14:26:11 GMT in reply to post #93 [24357<--24358]
OPEN
Great, ordered a power2max with 160mm crank for that!
I hope i love the ekar as much as the force xplr ;)
Post #95 of 101. Posted by Alexander K. on 17-Nov-2021 14:27:39 GMT in reply to post #94 [24358<--24359]
OPEN
Gerard, two last questions regarding my M.IND build:
Why do you use the Schwalbe Pro Tires and not for example the Conti GP5000? Any specific reason or just personal preference?
Same question regarding the Fizik 3d printed saddle - Does it provide lots of advantages compared to a standard one?
Post #96 of 101. Posted by Alexander K. on 21-Nov-2021 03:04:08 GMT in reply to post #94 [24358<--24360]
OPEN
Schwalbe, Conti and Pirelli all make nice tires. I have especially high hopes for the new GP 5000 TLR, and in fact I have a set on order for my personal bike to try, but they keep pushing back the delivery date. So I like that tire the way my daughter likes unicorns. Nice story, but rare to spot in the wild.

For the saddle, we spec the standard Argo R5 saddle in our kits. The printed saddle we had on one of our Bike Of The Month builds. Saddles are personal, I prefer the Argo R5 over the printed 00 saddle, others may find differently (and my actually saddle of choice is a Brooks Swallow. Of course it's a boat anchor but very comfortable FOR ME. May not work for somebody else.
Post #97 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 21-Nov-2021 11:41:08 GMT in reply to post #96 [24360<--24361]
OPEN
Just rec'd my Open UP Sage! Now to build it up. I really love the idea of the Ekar 1x13. I live in Chicago (very flat). Occasionally ride hills in Wisconsin and Iowa. Will mostly be riding this bike on the road (probably Zipp 303's). Will have a second set of wheels for Gravel (again...even the gravel rides in our area are flat). Suggestions on gearing? What size front chainring? I ride a large frame and 172.5 crank arm. Thanks everyone!
Post #98 of 101. Posted by OCDEan on 07-Mar-2022 12:55:47 GMT in reply to blog [0<--24437]
OPEN
It all depends on how strong you are. If you have a current bike you like the top gear of (or the second biggest gear or whatever it may be, then just take that gearing and use the same ratio for the Ekar. So if 52/11 is the biggest gear you want, that works out to 42/9 on EKAR. And then if you have the 9-42 cassette for gravel, you can ride anything on the road and much of the gravel you encounter, so definitely the flat stuff you will see. And you could consider the 9-36T cassette for your road wheels. Of course with a different top gear you want, the chainring changes but the cassettes probably stay the same.
Post #99 of 101. Posted by Gerard Vroomen on 07-Mar-2022 14:25:17 GMT in reply to post #98 [24437<--24438]
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